tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post8505100961597186442..comments2024-03-24T07:56:33.811-05:00Comments on Allan R. Bevere: Why Creeds Are ImportantAllan R. Beverehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-63475851564407880632010-08-25T08:34:52.254-05:002010-08-25T08:34:52.254-05:00I appreciate these recommendations. Reading helps ...I appreciate these recommendations. Reading helps to continue the conversation as well.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-33200817112842048592010-08-25T08:31:23.284-05:002010-08-25T08:31:23.284-05:00I'd suggest reading William Abraham's &quo...<i>I'd suggest reading William Abraham's "Canonical Theism" for further conversation regarding the relationship between scripture and the creeds.</i><br /><br />I like Luke Timothy Johnson's book "Creed." It is for non-academics, but does a nice job of explaining the Scriptural roots of the creeds and discussing the implications and meanings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-7873701196709099892010-08-24T23:46:20.730-05:002010-08-24T23:46:20.730-05:00I'd suggest reading William Abraham's &quo...I'd suggest reading William Abraham's "Canonical Theism" for further conversation regarding the relationship between scripture and the creeds.Kurt M. Boemlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767315496114371725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-70446175006368579202010-08-24T16:57:17.236-05:002010-08-24T16:57:17.236-05:00Bob,
Yes, indeed... excellent questions. I gave t...Bob,<br /><br />Yes, indeed... excellent questions. I gave the very general overview as to why creeds are important. Now with your questions we delve into the more difficult nuance of the discussion.<br /><br />Let me offer just a few brief thoughts that I hope will help answer your questions, but will certainly not exhaust the discussion.<br /><br />First, a creed as you know can only be a creed if it has ecumenical consent. So, a creed is expressing authoritatively the mind of the church (which is a creation of God and according to the NT has been vested with such authority). Of course, we could never have an ecumenical council today because the church is too divided, but that is another matter for another discussion.<br /><br />Based on this assumption, it seems to me that when the universal church speaks it is authoritative.<br /><br />Second, yes, Nicea only resolved some questions not all. Just as a creed does not speak on everything, so an ecumenical council cannot and does not either. Neverthless, Nicea dealt with necessary christological and soteriological issues for all generations. Thus we must not reject them out of hand, but at the same time they do not define completely what it might mean for Jesus to be "God from God, Light from Light." We certainly can get an idea when we look at the christological understandings that were rejected, but obviously there is more to the matter as time goes on.<br /><br />By the way, I think it can safely be said that every christological "heresy" that existed then, exists in one form or another today. In that respect there is nothing new under the sun. We have not really encountered new perspectives on christology as we have different twists on old ideas.<br /><br />The filioque is first an ecclesiological problem. The West never should have added it simply because to change a creed again requires ecumenical consent. At this point let me recommend an excellent book, edited by Christopher Sykes, Nicene Christianity, if you want to read some wonderfully reflective stuff by Christians from Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant traditions, who embrace Nicene Christianity and attempt to understand it in our time.<br /><br />Finally, I would say that if the creeds are only historical markers, then they really are not all that significant. They must be more. The Greek philosophical matter is problematic, but all theological thought comes to us within a philosophical framework. I think it is possible to look at what they did and understand where they could have asked some of the questions in a different way if they had had some different philosophical assumptions. We can do that today and still stand in the Nicene tradition. So, in short, no... we do not have to accept everything about their philosophy, since the issues are more than philosophical.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-81527024312489110782010-08-24T13:45:39.182-05:002010-08-24T13:45:39.182-05:00I guess the question is -- how do these creeds def...I guess the question is -- how do these creeds define what is non-negotiable? What makes Nicea definitive for Christian life -- remembering that Nicea is really Constantinople, and that it only resolved some questions and not all. Besides that we have the filioque clause which wasn't part of the original, but added centuries later in the West. <br /><br />I have no problem with creeds as historical markers, but question whether they have once and for the definitive, especially when they are deeply rooted in Greek philosohical categories. Do we have to accept the underlying philosophical categories to make sense of them? Just a few questions from a historian -- and pastor in a non-creedal tradition.Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-58348426174977671752010-08-24T13:27:15.594-05:002010-08-24T13:27:15.594-05:00I love the creeds as well. Every week we, as a co...I love the creeds as well. Every week we, as a congregation, profess our faith in the Apostle's Creed. I take that moment in worship to remind people that this defines who we are and whose we are. By putting into our memory, through repetition, it becomes who we are as well. The creeds give us strength and knowledge when times get tough and we are looking for answers.<br /><br />Thanks for the post.revjimparsonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05325772868412506330noreply@blogger.com