tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post636903126069223866..comments2024-03-24T07:56:33.811-05:00Comments on Allan R. Bevere: The HHS Conscience Clause: Religion Is Only About What Happens Within the Walls of the ChurchAllan R. Beverehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-49899776821864081482012-02-18T12:03:22.554-05:002012-02-18T12:03:22.554-05:00Alan: I've written a response. I don't kn...Alan: I've written a response. I don't know if it makes sense, but I put it out there for review. Let me know what you think.<br /><br />http://questorpastor.blogspot.com/2012/02/ceasar-and-pill.htmlDennis Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115504318620722199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-27346267400022707672012-02-17T18:28:49.192-05:002012-02-17T18:28:49.192-05:00Dennis,
You are spot on. The other problem is tha...Dennis,<br /><br />You are spot on. The other problem is that she seems to think that the non-negotiables of religious convictions can be nullified by the state.<br /><br />That should bother any believer from any religion.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-56376968972955447372012-02-17T10:06:06.515-05:002012-02-17T10:06:06.515-05:00I thought you might have some issues with what Car...I thought you might have some issues with what Carol wrote. I think her question and answer (about Jesus giving out birth control pills) is the wrong question to be asking. That doesn't mean I'm against birth control, I just don't think that should be the main thing here. What I think that matters is how we follow God and what do we do when church and state collide. Carol and others would say that this is important enough that the church should get out of the way and let the state do what it needs to do. There are times when the the church needs to work with the state, but her view would have the state running rampant over the church and some in the church seem willing to bow down to Ceasar because they like this Ceasar as opposed to the other Ceasars.<br /><br />I will write a response and I look forward to yours.Dennis Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115504318620722199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-22307302799206581352012-02-15T15:41:45.821-05:002012-02-15T15:41:45.821-05:00Dennis,
I did read the link you posted. Thanks fo...Dennis,<br /><br />I did read the link you posted. Thanks for this. I have some serious disagreements with the author. What I think I will do is post a response to the article for my next post in this series. Of course, I would very much like for you to respond and offer your perspective.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-57403680213181935502012-02-14T12:59:20.940-05:002012-02-14T12:59:20.940-05:00The problem which you point out Allen is that in o...The problem which you point out Allen is that in our society we have differentiated between sacred and secular. The Bible makes no such distinction. All of life is to be lived as a sacred moment. Haven't we condemned Sunday morning Christians for years? These people practice their religion within the walls of the church, then go on Monday and forget all about what happened on Sunday.<br /><br />Religious freedom is pretty much a thing of the past in American (as PopLid's Taco Bell example proves) and this controversy is just another inroads toward totally destroying it.JohnBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-17859516004463142682012-02-14T00:25:53.596-05:002012-02-14T00:25:53.596-05:00Once again, all kinds of issues are being confused...Once again, all kinds of issues are being confused here.<br /><br />My point in this post is that the assumption here is that only what happens in the four walls of a church is considered to be religious activity. That goes against historically what the church has believed.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-30568351169112307042012-02-13T21:43:51.487-05:002012-02-13T21:43:51.487-05:00Here we Go!
According to ThinkProgress.org (found ...Here we Go!<br />According to ThinkProgress.org (found here http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/10/423346/gop-ups-the-ante-introduces-legislation-to-allow-any-employer-to-deny-any-preventive-health-service/ )<br /><br />"next week Sen. Roy Blunt (R-MO) is expected to offer an amendment that would permit any employer or insurance plan to exclude any health service, no matter how essential, from coverage if they morally object to it:..." It explains the ammendment further:<br />"Under the measure, an insurer or an employer would be able to claim a moral or religious objection to covering HIV/AIDS screenings, Type 2 Diabetes treatments, cancer tests or anything else they deem inappropriate or the result of an “unhealthy” or “immoral” lifestyle. Similarly, a health plan could refuse to cover mental health care on the grounds that the plan believes that psychiatric problems should be treated with prayer."PopLidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10145431766864865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-41953859626074521552012-02-13T21:18:10.959-05:002012-02-13T21:18:10.959-05:00Two points:
1) The"administration" is no...Two points:<br />1) The"administration" is not the bad guy in this. There are many States which have already had the same health care provision for some years, including 8 States which have no exclusion for churches. These are existing State Laws which would be overruled by the HHS ruling, thus allowing an exception where none exists now.<br />2) There are many Catholic leaders who want to extend the exclusion to include the religeous convictions of any employer. One example was that a devout Catholic who opens a Taco Bell should not be required ("forced") to provide birth control for his employees, because his personal convictions should trump the HHS. <br />Sounds to me like the Catholic Bishops are making inroads into control of "secular" activities, thereby blurring the separation of church and state, not the other way around.PopLidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10145431766864865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-37888713425440762772012-02-13T20:47:51.598-05:002012-02-13T20:47:51.598-05:00"If by your claim you mean that only the gath..."If by your claim you mean that only the gathering under the steeple is being the church, That is your claim, not those who "side" with the administration."<br /><br />Frank, that is precisely the claim of the Administration, which is why they argue the first amendment does not apply.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-68752545747728199072012-02-13T20:35:45.178-05:002012-02-13T20:35:45.178-05:00If by your claim you mean that only the gathering ...If by your claim you mean that only the gathering under the steeple is being the church, That is your claim, not those who "side" with the administration. <br />When the homeless are fed at Haven of Rest, my understanding that the food is free, but the recipients must first "gather under the steeple" to listen to a sermon, before they are fed. Which part of that is the social justice, and which is evangelizing? Should an athiests (or Jews, or Catholics) tax dollars help pay for the food if they don't agree with the concepts being preached? So far, no one has objected.PopLidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10145431766864865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-44469314660511391452012-02-13T20:21:55.147-05:002012-02-13T20:21:55.147-05:00Respecfully, although I cannot speak for them, I b...Respecfully, although I cannot speak for them, I believe they are doing that which is necessary to get by. In that process, they pay the taxes that they must, and bow to those in power (and Obama is not one of them) so as to obtain that which they need to survive. The Church and Caesar are just two of those powers. Woman world wide are struggling with that situation. They are no longer satisfied to do it silently.PopLidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10145431766864865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-10384488451780792672012-02-13T20:19:47.909-05:002012-02-13T20:19:47.909-05:00Moreover, no one is answering my question because ...Moreover, no one is answering my question because no one knows exactly how to refute my claim.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-80225631284785471762012-02-13T20:04:27.947-05:002012-02-13T20:04:27.947-05:00It may be that the reason no one is responding is ...It may be that the reason no one is responding is the same issue we just raised. Within the Church, one has no voice....and that's the elephant in the nathex.PopLidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10145431766864865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-78316558756093731942012-02-13T19:48:07.827-05:002012-02-13T19:48:07.827-05:00I have to say that what I find interesting here is...I have to say that what I find interesting here is that no one has chosen to respond to my argument in this post.<br /><br />Why is that?Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-85781388166638350802012-02-13T19:42:01.377-05:002012-02-13T19:42:01.377-05:00Frank, I will actually deal with that issue in my ...Frank, I will actually deal with that issue in my next post. But simply to say at this point is that the essential convictions of the church are not up for popular whim.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-64587391178742127122012-02-13T19:38:44.203-05:002012-02-13T19:38:44.203-05:00Your comment about bigger issues being involved my...Your comment about bigger issues being involved my be more prophetic than you intended...<br />There is a group that is not being heard from. That is the group of Catholic women who would be covered by the employer's insurance. The word on the street says that 98% of Catholic women who are having sex are using birth control. Has anyone asked them if they would like to obtain it without an insurance copay?<br />The bigger issue here is why the Bishops still speak for and of those women as if that 98 percent were 1%. And what of the "partners" of that 98%...must be all non-Catholic, right?PopLidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10145431766864865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-47215143305511847972012-02-13T10:35:34.689-05:002012-02-13T10:35:34.689-05:00Thanks, Dennis... I will check out the link later ...Thanks, Dennis... I will check out the link later today.Allan R. Beverehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07903011101108437513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-85517374832937922482012-02-13T10:31:07.692-05:002012-02-13T10:31:07.692-05:00Alan,
I thought you might want to see what Carol ...Alan,<br /><br />I thought you might want to see what Carol Howard Merritt wrote. She's a Presbyterian pastor. I lean more in your direction on this, but I thought you might want to know about this.<br /><br />http://www.christiancentury.org/blogs/archive/2012-02/would-jesus-dispense-contraceptive-pillsDennis Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115504318620722199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19733180.post-25341655373968461642012-02-13T07:15:37.681-05:002012-02-13T07:15:37.681-05:00I'm still undecided on this issue. I agree wit...I'm still undecided on this issue. I agree with much you have to say here, but my money is used to support things I'm not in favor of as well. A pastor friend didn't like a portion of his taxes going to support the military, so he deducted it. Of course, there were consequences for his actions. If the Catholic church doesn't want to play by the governments rules, they do have options, right? I would also like to know more about what they church is already paying for in their insurance policies before I let them off the hook re: women's health.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00091445655872919350noreply@blogger.com